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October 30, 2011
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pepage
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| Lifetime Member Expert | posts 119 | |
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I have been reading the thread about adjusting dozer brakes with great interest as my dozer's right steering brake is failing. My dozer is the very basic model purchased about 2003. The instructions for adjusting the clutch (30 mm free play) and brake (30mm from deck plate) appear to be simple and straight forward. With Bob Rooks procedure in hand, I used a 13" 2x4 and wood shims to "fully depress brake pedal and hold in position." I unlocked the adjusting screws and screwed the locking nut all the way to the bolt head and reinstalled the screws. All the adjusting screws went all the way in except the upper screw on the right side which I tightened to 35 in. lbs. Backed out all the screws one turn and tightened the locking nuts. Went to measure the gap between the brake and deck plate and there was none i.e. the brake was hitting the deck plate. Next, I checked the clutch free play and this was very subjective from side to side. What I did notice was that the clutch arms moved when I depressed the pedals. It looks like the steering adjusting rods were adjusted to take out all the free play at the factory.
My thinking is to leave the steering clutches alone and adjust the brake pull rods to the maximum allowed and recheck the gap. If I get a gap on both sides maybe I can get another year out of the brakes but it looks as if I need to purchase parts now. What besides bands do I need to order?
 
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October 30, 2011
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Little_Grizzly
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| Lifetime Member Expert | posts 184 | |
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I have pendulum pedals and not the type you have so take this advice with a grain of salt.
If you shortened both rods (via their respective adjustments) the same amount wouldn't that keep the sequence the same while moving the action higher in the pedal stroke? Thereby increasing the gap when the pedal is fully depressed.
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October 30, 2011
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pepage
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| Lifetime Member Expert | posts 119 | |
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That is my plan. Looks like I have less than 30mm of thread.
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October 30, 2011
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Bob Rooks
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| Lifetime Member Platinum Elite | posts 868 | |
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The problem with both pedal systems is the sequencing of the brake, and this is due to the type of actuation of the band. Too much motion is lost to just apply the brake in relation to pedal travel (the steering clutch actuation is fine). I speculate that this system cannot be adjusted nor expected to operate correctly as designed, even at the factory, and was not thought through very well.
The actuating mechanism for the brake is unique to these tractors. The old Cats, Case, IH, etc. use a straight pull rod through the ends of the band using a pivot arm to draw the band ends together. Much better and more accurate. Also, they had separate levers and pedals for the brake and steering.
One thing is for sure – you can't pre-load the brake band to the point of contact and expect to get any life out of them. I suspect that if you can run the adjusting screws all the way in then there isn't much lining left on the band.
In the following weeks (I'm doing this on my vacation) I will present my mod, which in my opinion will correct this engineering design defect.
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October 30, 2011
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Bob Rooks
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| Lifetime Member Platinum Elite | posts 868 | |
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"What besides bands do I need to order?"
Gaskets. But figure on making your own unless you want to wait. Don't think Circle-G or anyone else stocks final drive gaskets.
I would look at just having them re-lined first. Even though they aren't all that expensive, re-lining should be a lot cheaper.
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October 31, 2011
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Bob Rooks
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| Lifetime Member Platinum Elite | posts 868 | |
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Post edited 4:21 am – October 31, 2011 by Bob Rooks
Took some cleaning up.  
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October 31, 2011
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Little_Grizzly
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| Lifetime Member Expert | posts 184 | |
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Bob, I'm quite curious. Is there any way for you to easily look and see how much your brake control arm moves when you apply full pedal? If it involves removing the deck plate, never mind. If you can see it from above though, I would be very interested to hear your estimate.
I ask, because on mine the arm moves quite a bit before the bands make contact with the hub. There is a lot of slack in the mechanism consisting of the brake band and the rocker arm it is attached to.
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October 31, 2011
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Bob Rooks
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| Lifetime Member Platinum Elite | posts 868 | |
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Post edited 9:35 am – October 31, 2011 by Bob Rooks
Grizz,
I'll be tearing into it by Thursday. The deck plates are coming off anyway to install my mod. But to answer your question, my pedals don't travel all the way to the deck plate stop, they bottom out applying the brake about 5/8" to 3/4" before the stop.
I will get that measurement for you. You read my post #4, yes?
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October 31, 2011
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Little_Grizzly
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| Lifetime Member Expert | posts 184 | |
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Yes I read it and it is exactly what I am thinking as well. In my case, I could take the cover plate off the brake box and run the tractor. The pendulum pedals don't have that extra pivot arm that you have so the cover is just a cover. I could see the brake band is held close to the hub at the two points where the adjustment bolts are, however on the ends where the bands connect to the pivot / actuating arm there is more than a half inch of clearance! In my case, you can move the brake control arm quite a bit (>1") before the bands touch the hub at all.
In my opinion that slack is enough for the "sequencing" to happen. This means the slot in the sequencing link is useless but the slop will provide enough play to "sequence" things…. I think…
Just before Eric came to take the dozer back I was able to get the right side break to work at about 90% using this idea of "pre loading" that slop. I didn't have enough time to play with it as much as I would have liked. I wanted to paint some dykum on the hub to see if I could tell when the bands started to touch the hub.
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October 31, 2011
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pepage
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| Lifetime Member Expert | posts 119 | |
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Adjusted brake rods by shorting the right side 10 turns and the left side 9 turns. The final gap was 1/2" or none depending on the free play of my size 14 foot and how many cups of coffee I had to drink.
I have to keep reminding myself what I paid for the dozer. An operator of a small Case dozer told me once they just had new track pins and bushings installed for 10K.
Eagerly awaiting "Yoda's" mod.
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October 31, 2011
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Little_Grizzly
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| Lifetime Member Expert | posts 184 | |
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Eagerly awaiting "Yoda's" mod.
I think you just hit on the answer for what to call the level after 500 posts. 
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November 10, 2011
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Bob Rooks
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| Lifetime Member Platinum Elite | posts 868 | |
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I haven't been able to start on this yet, but will do this week. Sorry for the delay.
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November 10, 2011
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Little_Grizzly
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| Lifetime Member Expert | posts 184 | |
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No worries. Personally I don't even have a dozer anyway. 
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November 10, 2011
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Bob Rooks
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| Lifetime Member Platinum Elite | posts 868 | |
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Do you know when you will get it back?
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November 10, 2011
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Little_Grizzly
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| Lifetime Member Expert | posts 184 | |
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Not a clue and I'm not going to rush them. I do know he said he only had one clutch in stock so he has to order the other from China. He said it usually only takes a week or so. I'm not expecting anything for a long while. The frustrating part (among other things) is my property is really a 3-season cabin. The chance of getting it up there before next spring is rapidly dwindling. Actually as I think about it unless it doesn't rain in December there is no chance.
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November 10, 2011
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tractorfreak
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| Lifetime Member | posts 30 | |
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I guess I was fortunate when I rebuilt the final drive on my 2005 NT3500C. Nortrack had all the gaskets. My problem was spacers were back ordered.
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November 10, 2011
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tractorfreak
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| Lifetime Member | posts 30 | |
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I have a question on breaks. Does anyone know anyone that has replaced the brake bands through the top plate on a Nortrac. I noticed that the saddle bags were notched as if to remove the break band actualization pin with out removing the saddle bags. I talked to a supervisor at Nortrac and He said he had heard of it being done though he had not done it himself.
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November 10, 2011
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Little_Grizzly
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| Lifetime Member Expert | posts 184 | |
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If you have the floor mounted brake pedals I doubt it could be done. There is that extra linkage/pivot that would make it hard. If you have the pendulum pedals it might be possible. HOWEVER, I think you would have to bend the bands to get them in and around the hub. This would make them out of round and I believe you would get uneven wear and possibly a spongy pedal feel.
Sam wrote:
Nortrack had all the gaskets.
All my gaskets came out of a tube!
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November 11, 2011
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tractorfreak
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| Lifetime Member | posts 30 | |
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You are probably right on the break bands. My breaks are good for the moment but I am going to take a more in depth look before dropping another final drive. Not my favorite thing to do…
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November 11, 2011
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Little_Grizzly
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| Lifetime Member Expert | posts 184 | |
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Any chance you took pictures of that process? I for one would like to see a thread on that excitement. 
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