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May 16, 2011
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Plan B
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| Lifetime Member | posts 12 | |
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Well i have already read this issue in another section but i have a customer who wants me to fix this problem. It is over flowing with hydro in the section that shifts from forward and reverse right in front of the transmission. Ive seen this topic on it and someone said it maybe some orings that need to be replaced…and i must remove the engine to get to them. I was wondering if anyone has a break down they can email me of this section so i wont be lost when i tear it down? Also where can i get the parts to fix it?
Thanks, Brandon.
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May 16, 2011
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Plan B
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| Lifetime Member | posts 12 | |
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Dont know how to post a pic so i put it in the photo album under "here's the leak"
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May 16, 2011
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Bob Rooks
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| Lifetime Member Platinum Elite | posts 868 | |
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Post edited 10:08 pm – May 16, 2011 by Bob Rooks
This is a pic of a Terramite TD3500 that was in an auction a while back. Went for only $7k. Don't know year but appears to be a newer model with a shuttle clutch
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After looking at your pics of "here's the leak", this dozer looks familiar.
If you say oil is coming out of the top cover plate of that section, check all of the hose connections and the cover gasket, and do NOT check the dipstick with the engine running – you will get wet! 
Need to know if your shuttle clutch has a hydraulic accumulator in the left saddlebag, and also if the left saddlebag contains a dedicated hydraulic oil reservoir for the shuttle clutch.
You may not have to pull the engine.
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May 17, 2011
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Plan B
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| Lifetime Member | posts 12 | |
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Well the oil is flowing out of the dipstick when we opened it without it running. Also it doesnt move forward or in reverse. Apparently its just filling up that section with hydro instead of moving. So i would assume something inside is broken or leaking through. Since i dont have a manual showing a break down of it , I dont know how it works. So i need some input. I hope your right about not having to remove the engine, it looks to me like i can remove the top of that section and access what i need to fix it. Ill post more when i get it to the house to work on it. Thanks.
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May 17, 2011
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Bob Rooks
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| Lifetime Member Platinum Elite | posts 868 | |
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Post edited 10:38 pm – May 17, 2011 by Bob Rooks
There should be about three gallons of oil in the shuttle clutch housing and about five gallons of oil in the left saddlebag reservoir when the engine is stopped. There are a couple of reasons why the dozer won't move: 1) Failure of the shuttle clutch input shaft splines. (This requires engine removal and clutch component disassembly). 2) Hydraulic issues. Some can be repaired without much disassembly, others not so.
I have a manual for the shuttle clutch on a PDF file that I can send you along with some helpful hints by another owner, although if you want my help you must answer my questions, so I will reiterate:
Need to know if your shuttle clutch has a hydraulic accumulator in the left saddlebag, and also if the left saddlebag contains a dedicated hydraulic oil reservoir for the shuttle clutch.
PM me with your email addy.
I'm not very good at mind reading anymore – too many women… 
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May 18, 2011
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Plan B
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| Lifetime Member | posts 12 | |
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I will answer your questions as soon as the machine gets here so i can see if there is an accumulater in the left saddlebag. and if there is a dedicated hyd. oil reservoir for the shuttle clutch. Its in Louisiana right now and the owner is gonna bring it to me. I tried to pm you but you gotta add me to your friends list apparently.
Thanks again!
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May 18, 2011
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Plan B
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| Lifetime Member | posts 12 | |
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Ok i talked to the owner he says there is a hydro reservoir in the left saddle bag dont know about the accumulator…he says there are check valves there that the fwd and reverse lines go into there if thats it. Does that help? He also said that before the shuttle clutch housing didnt fill up with fluid but now it is overflowing…if that helps.
Thanks again!
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May 18, 2011
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Bob Rooks
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| Lifetime Member Platinum Elite | posts 868 | |
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Find out what kind of oil is in the shuttle clutch, this is important.
More than likely the pump suction screen has never been cleaned, this will prevent the pump from scavenging the clutch housing.
There are no check valves in the shuttle clutch hydraulic system.
Your manual is on it's way.
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May 23, 2011
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Plan B
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| Lifetime Member | posts 12 | |
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Ok i hauled it to my inlaws house to work on it. We ran it and from what i can see there is an accumulator in left saddle bag and a tank like i said before. Not sure what kind of oil is in it but it looks like regular hydro. Where is this screen at ? in the tank or at the bottom of the shuttle clutch housing? Whats the direction of the oil flow? Im guessing it sucks from the bottom right side of the clutch housing and sends pressure to the "T" fitting between the tank and rotate valve. Im not so sure the pump is pumping anything cause when you work the rotate valve nothing pressures up….no hoses move at all!! but the blade controls on right side work great!! and there seems to be a pump for each side..one mounted on back and one mount directly in front of it. Am i right? any idea what the psi i should be and where i should check it? Im guessing at that "T".
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May 23, 2011
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Bob Rooks
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| Lifetime Member Platinum Elite | posts 868 | |
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Post edited 11:45 pm – May 23, 2011 by Bob Rooks
Plan B wrote:
Ok i hauled it to my inlaws house to work on it. We ran it and from what i can see there is an accumulator in left saddle bag and a tank like i said before. Not sure what kind of oil is in it but it looks like regular hydro. Where is this screen at? Should be a three bolt flange on the bottom right side of the clutch housing, which is the pump suction. You may have a return line filter in the left saddlebag also, or instead of.
Whats the direction of the oil flow? Im guessing it sucks from the bottom right side of the clutch housing and sends pressure to the "T" fitting between the tank and rotate valve. Correct.
Im not so sure the pump is pumping anything cause when you work the rotate valve nothing pressures up….no hoses move at all!! but the blade controls on right side work great!! There are two independent hydraulic systems, one for the clutch and one for tractor hydraulics.
and there seems to be a pump for each side..one mounted on back and one mount directly in front of it. Am i right? Correct. The pump in front is for the clutch only.
any idea what the psi i should be and where i should check it? Im guessing at that "T". Pressure should be between 35 and 45 psig. The tee would be a good place to tap into, and make certain that you don't deadhead the pump.
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May 24, 2011
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Plan B
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| Lifetime Member | posts 12 | |
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Sounds like we are on the right track!! There is a return filter but there is a guage on it to tell you if its clogged and its not showing any pressure. Any idea where i can get that pump if i determine that its bad?
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May 24, 2011
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Bob Rooks
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| Lifetime Member Platinum Elite | posts 868 | |
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Post edited 9:07 am – May 24, 2011 by Bob Rooks
Phillip @ Circle G Tractor, Eric @ Keno Tractor, or try any of the contributing dealers on this site. I will speculate that it may be the same pump used on the 304/354 Jinma wheeled tractors for power steering but I have yet to verify this. Does your pump have a name plate on it?
Circle G has quite an extensive inventory of dozer parts online.
The gauge on the return filter won't show any pressure anyway unless there there is a restriction in the filter. The filter also has a built-in 15 psig by-pass valve. You may get the needle to jump a little when the oil is cold while exercising the selector (rotate) valve.
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May 24, 2011
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Plan B
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| Lifetime Member | posts 12 | |
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Cool! It does have a #plate on it and ill get it off tomorrow when i go out there to mess with it. Thanks for the help!
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May 24, 2011
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Bob Rooks
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| Lifetime Member Platinum Elite | posts 868 | |
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Post edited 10:06 pm – May 24, 2011 by Bob Rooks
You might also want to check the relief valve in that pump, it may just be stuck.
I will also speculate that the tractor was run for quite awhile with the original crapoil in the clutch before it was changed over to the wrong oil, and then possibly run dry, however that scenario could be reversed.
When you get the number off of the pump, contact one of the stocking dealers that contribute to this site and compare numbers. You may still have to compare bolt patttern dimensions, drive tang, etc.
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May 25, 2011
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Plan B
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| Lifetime Member | posts 12 | |
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i pulled the pump and drained some of the oil and it was very dark in color. So it probably needs to be drained and filled. What kind of oil do i need and can i get something of equal quality locally? Any way i ran the machine and broke some lines loose and its not putting out much pressure at all. I dont have a guage to hook up and cant seem to find one locally. So i just took the fitting off at the T and its just running out slowly very little pressure. The pump is a CBT-E306HL0612L if its not extremely high ill just replace it but ill check the relief valve first i guess and if its stuck ill free it up and put it back on.
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May 25, 2011
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Bob Rooks
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| Lifetime Member Platinum Elite | posts 868 | |
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Post edited 1:16 pm – May 25, 2011 by Bob Rooks
The correct oil to use in the shuttle clutch is ISO AW 220 MACHINE OIL. This particular oil has an AGMA rating. Any brand will do.
Check with Circle G on these pumps: CBT-E3 and HLCB-D06. Eric at Keno, Tommy at Affordable, and Ronald at Ranch Hand should also stock these pumps.
Don't expect a lot of pressure, only 35 – 45 psig, and don't expect a lot of volume either, it's a pretty small pump. Another reason you aren't getting much pressure is that the accumulator isn't charged. Do NOT attempt to take it apart.
Did you check the pump suction screen in the clutch housing? Plugged? The mere fact that some oil is coming out tells you that the pump is working.
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May 26, 2011
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Little_Grizzly
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| Lifetime Member Expert | posts 184 | |
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Post edited 3:24 pm – May 26, 2011 by Little_Grizzly
Bob, as a complete novice to hydraulic systems as well as heavy machinery in general I've been looking up where to find ISO AW 220 Machine oil. I could be looking at absolutely the wrong thing quite easily. I found this "Machine Lubricant Cross Reference" document. Is this the stuff you are referring to?
http://www.basstool.com/PDF/li…..erence.pdf
I guess my question is: Are there ISO AW 220 oils that are NOT machine oil?
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May 26, 2011
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Little_Grizzly
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| Lifetime Member Expert | posts 184 | |
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or perhaps this pdf is more complete….do you see what you are looking for anywhere in here?
http://www.perkinsproducts.com…..icants.pdf
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May 26, 2011
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Bob Rooks
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| Lifetime Member Platinum Elite | posts 868 | |
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Post edited 5:06 pm – May 26, 2011 by Bob Rooks
Grizz wrote:
"Is this the stuff you are referring to?"
Yes and no  . They are referring to "machine oil" generically.
The VG designation refers to the Viscosity Grade of the base stock.
The AW designation refers to Anti-Wear additive package.
Oils are formulated from base stocks with specific additive packages for specific applications. Some oils are a "compromise", but generally will perform better in one application or another.
Light reading:
Chevron ISO AW 220 Machine Oil. Shell Tellus AW 220 Mobil SHC 600 Series
Are there ISO AW 220 oils that are NOT machine oil?
Yes. Specific hydraulic oils, turbine oils, etc.
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May 26, 2011
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Bob Rooks
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| Lifetime Member Platinum Elite | posts 868 | |
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Grizz wrote:
"or perhaps this pdf is more complete….do you see what you are looking for anywhere in here?"
Yep, all over the place. I remember that article, used to subscribe to that mag.
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