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April 20, 2011
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Jeff
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Post edited 9:36 am – April 20, 2011 by Jeff
Hello, I am new to this site and forum and have a question about the above two tractors. I am confused by some of the information given by several different dealers.
I am likely to buy a Jinmar tractor. The price in comparison to what they offer seems to be the best choice for me. I have been leaning toward the 284. However several dealers quote different horsepower for this model. One will indicate it is 28hp and another will indicate it is a 25hp tractor. The same dealers however indicate the 354 as a 35hp engine. None seem to vary on this model.
I am going to be using the tractor on a hillside piece of property and will be digging into that hillside substantially. While the dirt is soft there does seem to be considerable rocks in it as well as scrub brush. I anticipate that I will also purchase a backhoe attachment for two purposes, additional weight to counter the bucket weight and to dig in areas that are harder rather than use the Front bucket.
I am not looking to finish this project in a hurry. There seems to be a lot of information on the internet regarding the 284 but little on the 354. For the money the 284 fits well in my budget but I don't want to buy a tractor that I will either be disappointed in or will damage because it is not suited for the work I want to do.
Does anyone have any recommendations on which model will best suit my needs? I am grateful for the opportunity to seek your knowledge and experience. The CTOA is obviously going to be a valuable resource for me.
Thank you in advance,
J
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April 21, 2011
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SpringValley
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| Lifetime Member Expert | posts 176 | |
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The Jinma 284 was a 28 HP tractor except for the ones brought into the US. The engine was de-rated to 25 HP as part of EPA compliance. The model number was normally not changed however some are branded a 254.
Keep in mind that there was several engine builders for these tractors so there are variations. The 354 was 35HP. You will see these with both 3 and 4 Cyl engines.
As for a backhoe don't buy a Chinese one unless you want a headache. Poor hydraulics, poor welds, under built you name it. No matter what you buy it is not going to be a replacement for a real backhoe. They are intended for small jobs not to excavate a basement.
Ag tractors with loaders are not designed to dig with the loader. They are designed to scoop with. Industrial tractors are built for that job. It almost sounds like for the jobs you have planed a real backhoe/loader is more in order.
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April 21, 2011
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davoth
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| Lifetime Member | posts 7 | |
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Went through a similar decision a few years ago. Was going to get a 25 or 35 hp Jinma or Kama/Taishan). Ended up with a DF354 manual gear although the new ones have the shuttle shift. I decided soon enough with the larger DF354 not just for the hp but everything is built larger and beefer. There have been many examples of broken front axles on the 200 serries Jinmas with front end loader work especially when in 4WD. Haven't heard of any on the 300 serries. Now those that broke were probably pushed way beyond there reasonable capacity. But if you want to do any serious work defintely go larger and as Springvalley said you may need something even bigger or a more dedicated machine. I guess you could rent or contract out the heavy work and then do the clean up yourself with a lighter machine, again though the larger 35hp would still be my choice. Take a look at the DF's. A dealer list below depending where you are.
** you don't have permission to see this link **
Love mine , the quality and standard features seem a slightly higher level.
As for the BH's, my Chineese Townsunny(Dongfeng) is excellent a copy of a Kuboata style and works well, but it is a 3pt which is limited to smaller work. Still useful, but not like a larger frame mounted or better a dedicated machine. I think the Chineese LW serries BH have had many issues that people have had to put much aftermarket work into to get them to work properly
Good Luck with your choice but do lots of research. If your willing to do the maintenance they are all good workhorses.
Dave
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April 21, 2011
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RichWaugh
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| Lifetime Member Elite | posts 280 | |
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Jeff,
I tend to agree with Larry that the work you describe sounds like a job better suited to a Case 580 than Jinma 284 or 354. Compact utility tractors are not designed to dig with the loader bucket. Neither the loader nor the tractor are built heavy enough for real digging. Yes, you can dig out a hilllside by taking angle cuts with the corner of the bucket if you are reasonably careful, but if you try to ram the bucket into a hill to take a full scoop you're going to break something sooner, rather than later.
A backhoe, particularly a frame mounted one as opposed to one that mounts to the three point hitch, will dig better than the loader bucket will, but it is still not an industrial machine and isn't up to breaking hardpan or ripping out boulders.
That said, there is a big difference between the 254/284 Jinma and the 304/354 Jinma. The bigger one not only has a more powerful engine, the entire tractor is built much heavier. Probably well over a ton heavier. This translates to better traction, greater ability to pull loads or digging implements, etc. You can look up the respective weights of the two models to see what I mean.
Since you say that you're not in a hurry to get this work accomplished, you might be able to get by with the 354 Jinma with a frame-mount backhoe mounted. I doubt that the 284 would be a heavy enough machine to do the job, though.
Most people who are familiar with them recommend getting anything but a Chinese backhoe. Get a TomCat from Tommy at Affordable Tractor or a LiTW from one of the other dealers – you'll pay a bit more but you'll be much happier with it. Those who bought Chinese backhoes usually wind up replacing the control valves and a good part of the hydraulic plumbing to get the things to work decently. If you get a decent backhoe and are reasonably patient in using it, you can probably do the work you need. Keep in mind that backhoes for these tractors will only dig to a maximum of about 7 feet deep and have a comparably limited reach as compared to an industrial backhoe.
Of course, any tractor beats a wheelbarrow and a pick. 
Rich
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April 22, 2011
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Bob Rooks
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| Lifetime Member Platinum Elite | posts 868 | |
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For benching a hillside you still can't beat a dozer with a six-way blade IMHO. Rent one for that purpose. If you are sitting on a mine of caliche or hard pan like I am, no matter what you use you will be going through cutting edges and bucket teeth like they were made from butter (figuratively speaking). 
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April 22, 2011
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Jackpine
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| Lifetime Member | posts 52 | |
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Welcome to CTOA… 
I bought a 284. I think it is a good little tractor. That being said, I must also tell you that it is used for smaller jobs around the property. Not excavating. My frame mount backhoe is used for digging trenches and removing dirt around trees, and occasionally removing stumps, not removing a hillside. Wouldn't even consider doing that. Bucket is used for removing loose dirt and hauling misc garbage here and there. Use it to clear driveway of snow. Spread dirt around, etc. Not designed to dig with.
The best idea comes from the gentlemen above. 
Rent a dozer. Then use the tractor to move/remove the LOOSE material. For what you are planning, I don't think a 284 is designed for it. It is more of a "everyday maintenance around the property" tractor. 
When you decide, after the research, CTOA members are here to help. These guys are a great resource. 
But don't tell them I said that.. 
Jack.
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April 23, 2011
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Badger
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| Lifetime Member | posts 7 | |
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Hi The 354 is a true work horse and will do all the work you will need. The chinese back hoe does have some limitations but if you work it smartly you should have no problems. I have dug foundations even three full basements, the reach was not what a full size backhoe would be but all you do is start in the middle pileing to one side then remove the pile with the front bucket and work out so you end up being able to reach the remaining earth. If you want to clean out the hole just ramp down then pile it to one side then when you have enough you use the front bucket to haul it out. A good all round tractor with lots of power. As far as I understand the 354 does not come with a frame mounting backhoe but uses a 3 point backhoe. Yes the chinese valves can be a pain, I have had no problem with the backhoe but the front loader has given me problems, the first week I blew a hose and have had problems with the o rings in the control unit leaking so I have a single stick control on the list once I have 600 bucks to spare. If you are on a steep hillside I would suggest you hire a size 220 trackhoe $ 120 a hour here on the west coast and he will have it done in less than a day probably half a day depending on the size of the hole and then you can use your tractor to haul it away at your lesure. Sometimes a few bucks spent saves more in time in the long run. P.S. I bought mine directly from China in a crate Hubei Foton Machinery Liu Li sales manager. The one big advantage with doing it this way is you put it togather yourself thus learning more about the workings of a tractor than you will get from a manual plus a big saving on the dollars out.
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April 23, 2011
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Badger
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| Lifetime Member | posts 7 | |
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Adition to above , go with the 4 in 1 bucket for the loader, amazing what you can do with it.
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April 28, 2011
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sillyset
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| Lifetime Member | posts 2 | |
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Thanks to everyone for the great information and advise! I am grateful for the help. It appears my best option is to rent excavating equipment and use the tractor for clean-up.
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