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clutch not working properly

Forum Forums Bulldozer & Excavator Troubleshooting clutch not working properly

This topic contains 37 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by Bob Rooks Bob Rooks 2 years, 7 months ago.

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  • #30892

    Ronald Paulson Ronald Paulson
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    Hi bob

    I haven’t gotten out to my machine to see what year it is. But I will

    My dozer does have an accumuator.

    Also I’m very interested in trying a better choice of oil in my clutch to see if that helps it.

  • #36951

    Ronald Paulson Ronald Paulson
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    Hi there
    I picked up a used yct306s-6 dozer I have had the machine about five months. It had around 100 hours on it. I have put on about 20 hrs. Im having trouble with my shuttle clutch. Its not finding neutral and when in forward or reverse it lugs the engine almost to a stall. I have drained and changed all fluids motor, clutch, trans. I’m using hy-trans oil in the clutch.
    Any thoughts?
    Thanks

  • #36954
    Bob Rooks
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    I'm away from my 'puter right now so I don't have access to the specific oil info, but it was a AGMA rated 20w machine oil. I'll get specifics when I get back.

    You will have to tap into the clutch hydraulic system to see what pressure you're getting. It should be between 30# and 50#. This pressure overcomes the spring engaging pressure of the planetary drive servos (there are two, one forward – one reverse). There is also a possibility that the accumulator has lost it's charge for some reason.

    It sounds like one or both of your servos is not releasing the spring pressure. These work very similar to the steering clutches.

    Yuchai dozer, Mustang skid steer, Mitsubishi mini-ex, Dual Dozer w/twin laser receivers, '50 Ford COE transit mixer.

  • #36955
    Bob Rooks
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    Do you have the parts and owners manuals? If not I can send them to you.

    Yuchai dozer, Mustang skid steer, Mitsubishi mini-ex, Dual Dozer w/twin laser receivers, '50 Ford COE transit mixer.

  • #36956

    Ronald Paulson Ronald Paulson
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    Hi there
    yes on the manual and I also have a parts catalog.

    I will also see if i can put some gages in line and see what pressure i have.

    Ill do some home work on oil in the meantime. To see what’s available in my area.

    Thanks

  • #36957
    Bob Rooks
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    The specific oil for optimum performance is ISO AW 150 machine oil.

    This is available in almost all popular oil brands.

    Yuchai dozer, Mustang skid steer, Mitsubishi mini-ex, Dual Dozer w/twin laser receivers, '50 Ford COE transit mixer.

  • #36958

    Ronald Paulson Ronald Paulson
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    Thanks I will try that type of oil.

  • #36959
    Bob Rooks
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    I forgot to ask if you had checked and cleaned the suction strainer in the bottom of the case.

    Yuchai dozer, Mustang skid steer, Mitsubishi mini-ex, Dual Dozer w/twin laser receivers, '50 Ford COE transit mixer.

  • #36960

    Ronald Paulson Ronald Paulson
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    Yep I pulled it out when I drained original oil and put in the hy- trans. I was hoping that it was plugged but it was clean. I have my fingers crossed that it will help with a better weight of oil. As well with pressure gauges to see what my pump and clutch are doing. This web site is a great tool.

  • #36961
    Bob Rooks
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    Shop tip if you didn't already know: It's easy to tap into a hydraulic system anywhere there is a banjo bolt used. Simply drill and tap for 1/8″ NPT in the center of the hex head. Install a high pressure needle valve and a 3,000 PSI gauge. When you are done testing, install a 1/8″ NPT steel pipe plug.

    Yuchai dozer, Mustang skid steer, Mitsubishi mini-ex, Dual Dozer w/twin laser receivers, '50 Ford COE transit mixer.

  • #36962

    Ronald Paulson Ronald Paulson
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    Thanks for the shop tip. Also I’m having trouble finding an oil that has the same ratings as you said above. I can get some types of rotella do you know what would be a similar match in that brand?

  • #36963
    Bob Rooks
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    I'll check and get back to you asap.

    Yuchai dozer, Mustang skid steer, Mitsubishi mini-ex, Dual Dozer w/twin laser receivers, '50 Ford COE transit mixer.

  • #36964
    Bob Rooks
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    Closest match to spec is Shell Tellus 32 (preferred) or Tellus 25. Rotella is engine oil – not recommended in this application, I don't care what the dealers say. wink

     

    Note: You won't need a 5,000 PSI gauge to test the clutch hydraulic system, a 200 PSI gauge will do.

    Yuchai dozer, Mustang skid steer, Mitsubishi mini-ex, Dual Dozer w/twin laser receivers, '50 Ford COE transit mixer.

  • #36975

    Ronald Paulson Ronald Paulson
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    As best I can tell my dozer is 2002. But the engine tag says its 2005 us space approved.

    I removed the hy trans fluid I had in the clutch system. And replaced it with shell rotella hd 30 weight hydro-trans fluid. It was the closest to your thoughts for clutch fluid.

    I ran dozer for 20 minutes in low, first gear and pushed dirt. It did improve it performance but still has has trouble finding neutral as well as engine bogging in both forward and reverse. But it does it less often than before.

    Also my clutch case after running as said above was 180-200 degrees. Is that a normal temp?

    I could not install a pressure gauge as of yet. Due to (wrong fittings) plumbing always seams to take a few try’s.

    Side note the out side of my clutch case after running as said above was 180-200 degrees. Would that be normal?

  • #36976

    Ronald Paulson Ronald Paulson
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    My manual calls for 7.5 gal of fluid for clutch system. But the case can’t hold that much fluid. Only about 6 gal. Also the dip stick looks as if it had been broken and Welded together. My concern is if the fluid level is correct. With the fluid filled to read right on the dip stick and top of case off. I can see about 75% of the clutch pack. Does that sound right?

  • #36977

    Ronald Paulson Ronald Paulson
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    Correction for above. 2005 us epa approved. Not space approved. Ha ha.

  • #36979
    Bob Rooks
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    There is a reason for the specific oil recommendation. Why can't your supplier get Tellus 32? Where are you purchasing the oil?

    As I asked before, does your left saddlebag reservoir have a sight glass? This is where oil is stored for the shuttle clutch. This reservoir holds about seven gallons.

    Yuchai dozer, Mustang skid steer, Mitsubishi mini-ex, Dual Dozer w/twin laser receivers, '50 Ford COE transit mixer.

  • #36981
    Bob Rooks
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    A picture of your left saddlebag (battery) compartment would be helpful.

    180° to 200° is at the maximum upper limit. Should be around 160° to 170°.

    Yuchai dozer, Mustang skid steer, Mitsubishi mini-ex, Dual Dozer w/twin laser receivers, '50 Ford COE transit mixer.

  • #36986

    Ronald Paulson Ronald Paulson
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    The oil I got was from tractor supply co.

    My dozer isn’t plumbed to use the drivers side saddle tank. Only the passenger side tank is set up for the blade hydraulics.

  • #36987
    Bob Rooks
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    Then how is your accumulator plumbed? Do you have a reservoir on the left side? That's one of the reason your oil temp is so high, the oil doesn't spend enough time in residence to settle out, cool, and deareate.

    Yuchai dozer, Mustang skid steer, Mitsubishi mini-ex, Dual Dozer w/twin laser receivers, '50 Ford COE transit mixer.

  • #36989

    Ronald Paulson Ronald Paulson
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    Oh ok. Now that is making sense. The accumulator is plumbed in right of the rotary valve. The feed line from the pump comes up to the rotary valve and enters a tee and the accumulator is tied in there. I thought that was weird. Why have a tank and its not being used. Maybe the previous owner actually assembled the dozer? Could you post a pic of you battery compartment? Also I can’t seem to post pictures myself. Im using this site via my smart phone and it doesn’t seem to load pictures.

  • #36990
    Tinbender
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    You have to shrink pictures to around 350MB then click the tree icon and navigate from there. If you get that far me or someone else can walk you through from there

  • #36991

    Ronald Paulson Ronald Paulson
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    Thanks tin bender I will give it a try.

  • #36992
    Bob Rooks
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    I have a plumbing schematic I will post when I get home.

    Do you have an outlet at the rear inside at the bottom of the unused reservoir?

    This is what your left saddlebag should look like. Somewhat.

     

    ?

    Yuchai dozer, Mustang skid steer, Mitsubishi mini-ex, Dual Dozer w/twin laser receivers, '50 Ford COE transit mixer.

  • #36993

    Ronald Paulson Ronald Paulson
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    Yep there are some outlets in the tank next to the battery. I think there are three.

  • #36995
    Bob Rooks
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    How about a big one on the seat side? Should look like the same one in the right saddlebag for the tractor hydraulics.

    Yuchai dozer, Mustang skid steer, Mitsubishi mini-ex, Dual Dozer w/twin laser receivers, '50 Ford COE transit mixer.

  • #36996

    Ronald Paulson Ronald Paulson
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    Yep it does have a big outlet.
    also the picture you posted looks close to mine. Except that my neutral line goes straight down to the clutch case. Also I dont have a filter and gauge.
    what does the small cylinder on the side of the rotary valve do? And how should It be adjusted?

  • #36998

    Ronald Paulson Ronald Paulson
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    Ok I put down my phone and got on my computer and there’s a lot more buttons and icons when using the computer. Ill be out at my dozer tomorrow for pictures to post. Thanks guys for your help so far.

  • #37001
    Bob Rooks
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    Your plumbing system should look like this:

    Yuchai dozer, Mustang skid steer, Mitsubishi mini-ex, Dual Dozer w/twin laser receivers, '50 Ford COE transit mixer.

  • #37012

    Ronald Paulson Ronald Paulson
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    HI THERE. I added A FILTER AND PLUMBED LINES IN TO DRIVERS SIDE saddle TANK AND FILLED TANK WITH OIL UP TO THE RETURN LINE OPENING BUT ONCE I STARTED UP DOZER THE clutch PUMP WOULD PUT FLUID INTO THE TANK FASTER THAN IT would return TO THE clutch CASE. I PULLED THE 90 fitting WHERE THE return LINE enters THE CASE AND IT HAS A LOng STEM WHICH PLACE CLUTCH OIL DOWN LOW NEAR WHERE THE suction screen IS IN THE CASE. BUT it’s NOT enough suction TO PULL FLUID INTO CLUTCH CASE TO maintain A GOOD OIL LEVEL IN THE CASE. ANY suggestions?

    WHAT SHOULD THE LEVEL OF FLUID IN clutch CASE BE, OR HOW COVERED SHOULD THE clutch PACKS BE?

  • #37016
    Bob Rooks
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    Did you make sure the reservoir was meticulously clean before you added any oil?

    Do you still have the tee'd line going to the accumulator from the pump discharge?

    At this point where is the oil level on the dipstick?

    Do you have provisions for a sight gauge on the reservoir? It would be a steel boss with two 17mm bolts about 3″ apart.

    Yuchai dozer, Mustang skid steer, Mitsubishi mini-ex, Dual Dozer w/twin laser receivers, '50 Ford COE transit mixer.

  • #37505

    Jeffrey Arendt
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    Hi guys–I'd just like to jump in here and say that I have all the exact same issues with my yct 306s crawler.I recently changed all the oil with the recommended grades—shell rimula 40wt for transfer case,  10wt hydraulic,  30 wt  engine.   But there are 2 fill holes on floorboard–front one for clutch case, rear one for transfer case,  and only the right side hydraulic tank is in use.  It will run and shift normally for about 5 mins,  and then will abruptly stop with NO neutral to be found.  I can wait 10 mins, start up and it will be okay briefly.  I am about ready to suck it up and pay someone to get it fixed, but can't find anyone willing to work on these Chinese machines.   Does anyone know of  mechanic in the Medford, Or. area who will??            thanks,  Jeff          

                                               

  • #37506

    Ronald Paulson Ronald Paulson
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    Hi jeff, thats what my dozer would do exactly. I even called in a pro who popped open the top of the case and tried to wiggle the clutch disks and they didnt move and said it needs to be replaced, that cost me $500.00 ouch…..well i got the nerve up to spilt my dozer late last fall. Once i removed the shuttle clutch pack from the case i opened the clutch and found that the cylinders where the pistons are that press against the clutch disks was full of crud, the sludge was a mix of dust,dirt, and metal from the clutch disks them self. I fully cleaned the clutch unit but have yet to order the new clutch disks which were burnt and warped. I found clutch parts at farm boys in Tennessee, for around $600.00.

  • #37508
    Bob Rooks
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    What is the “transfer case”? Do you mean the transmission and bevel gear compartment? If so, that's supposed to have 80W-90 gear oil in it, and 85W-140 gear oil in the final drives (one each side). And I'll wager that neither of you gentlemen are running the correct oil in your shuttle clutches. On the bottom side of the shuttle clutch there is a bolted flange that contains a strainer. This strainer must be cleaned periodically.

    Who uses 30W oil in these engines? What is the API rating of that 30W oil? 

    Yuchai dozer, Mustang skid steer, Mitsubishi mini-ex, Dual Dozer w/twin laser receivers, '50 Ford COE transit mixer.

  • #37521

    Jeffrey Arendt
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    Hi Bob–Jeff here………….On the floor board, there are 2 fill holes; the one in front of shifter is labeled clutch case, and the rear one, gearbox.   Not to be confused with final drive-one on each side.  Under oil recommendation, it says-engine sump=30w high ash rimula,  transfer case/transmission box=40w high ash rimula,  hydraulic sump=iso 32//sae10…………nothing about shuttle clutch.    AND,  my left tank is not being used!    In that compartment–battery side- there is a cylinder(accumulater??) with one line going to it from rotator valve.  when I removed it,  a small amount of dirty oil came out(all the oil sumps are full of see-thru clean oil)  What is the function of this spring loaded cylinder?    I'm fairly certain the importer I purchased from had never set up a crawler before,  and he is no longer in biz.     Will I have to drain oil to check/clean strainer?       As a licensed denturist,  I spend more time grinding on teeth than gears.   I can handle the mechanical part,  I'm just a little short on the functional knowledge of this beast.   I have the feeling I'm gonna  get to know it better in time……and thanks for your time and patience………. ,    Jeff,  Gold Hill,  Oregoncool………readin

  • #37522
    Bob Rooks
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    Hi Jeff,

    Yes, I'm familiar with the OEM lubricant recommendations, however there is a lot lost in the translations. The shuttle clutch should be using ISO AW 220 machine oil. This oil is recommended for geared friction drives and has an AGMA grade rating of 5. Any brand can be used as long as it meets those specs. In my opinion this is the best selection for this type of drive that uses planetary gearing and friction clutches. You can also use Caterpillar TO-4 if you have a lot of disposable income. roflmao There have been other owners that say shuttle clutch performance was greatly improved after switching. The clutch also runs cooler.

    Yes, that is a hydraulic accumulator in the left saddlebag. That acts as a cushion and also stores pressure (about 40 psig). The clutch packs are engaged by spring force (kind of counterintuitive) and disengaged by servos using hydraulic pressure. The clutch oil must be drained in order to clean the strainer. This system should be impeccably clean.

    What they are calling the “transfer case” is actually the bevel gear case which has a common sump with the transmission. This is a high gear tooth loading arrangement and requires an EP lubricant, hence the 85W-90 gear oil.

    Did you know there is a dealer for these dozers in Oregon? KENO Tractor in Keno, OR.

    Yuchai dozer, Mustang skid steer, Mitsubishi mini-ex, Dual Dozer w/twin laser receivers, '50 Ford COE transit mixer.

  • #37536

    Jeffrey Arendt
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    Hi Bob and thanks for your time– Are you familiar with Shells top of the line transmission oil SPIRAX GL-4?  and could it be used in trans case or clutch tank.?  I think you recommended aw 220 machine for the clutch,  and 85-90 w for the transfer case(not the final drive).   And should I plumb the empty tank, lft side for the shuttle clutch oil??   research shows quite a variety of the 220 oil(sewing machine)–around $70-100 per 5 gals…….I think this is enough for me to take on for now!!   thanks,  Jeff readin    

  • #37538
    Bob Rooks
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    The Spirax S3-G is a good oil for the transmission and “transfer case” in the appropriate weight. Don't even think of using it for the clutch – way too heavy.

    Not sure where you get “sewing machine” oil, but here is a guide you can use to find substitute oil. And yes, that price is about right. Please bear in mind that I'm making recommendations based on my education as an engineer and many years of experience in the field, but you are under no obligation to follow them. 

    http://www.duboischemicals.com…..0Guide.pdf

    Yuchai dozer, Mustang skid steer, Mitsubishi mini-ex, Dual Dozer w/twin laser receivers, '50 Ford COE transit mixer.

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