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gLOW pLUGS

Forum Forums Tractor Troubleshooting gLOW pLUGS

This topic contains 30 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  Bennie 2 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #30833

    rodwood
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    Sometimes I do the dumbest things, as I was awaiting parts from Tommy for my front axle ” witch by the way went back together pretty nicely” I left my key on,,, now my glow plugs are not heating, the ignition switch when turned to the heat position does not draw any amps,, the 30 Amp fuse has continuity through it, can anyone tell me what I may have #$%^&* up.

  • #36519

    DavidPrivett
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    make sure that the key switch is energizing the wire to the glow plugs when it is put in the heating position then look at the resistance of each glow plug,you can do this while there in the engine remove the copper (mostly)strap. one ohm meter lead to the block the other to the place the strap was it should read I think around 3 ohms or less.I was thinking if you wanted to if you have a 30+ amp meter you could look at amp draw to see if they were pulling alike.

  • #36530

    rodwood
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    Well thanks for the lead on this fix,, when I turn the key on I show no draw on the amp meter I continue to turn and the starter engages after looking I'm not sure where the glow plugs are located,, frankly I'm stumped on this!! Why would leaving the key on create this problem? if I need to change the ignition and glow plugs I'm willing but I don't know exactly where the glow plugs are located in the engine? Just a bit more help please, using a electrical meter is not a strong point I have.

  • #36531
    ronjin
    ronjin
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    In my opinion, leaving the key in the On position would have nothing to do with the glow plugs no longer working.  The key on could affect the battery energy if left on long enough.

    Glow plugs are located on the left side of the engine (look like small spark plugs).  Disconnect the wire that leads to them and suspend it so that the end does not touch anything.  Connect the red lead of a meter that measures voltage to that wire and connect the black lead of the meter to a good ground.  Place the meter so you can see it from the seat of the tractor.  Get on the tractor and depress the clutch pedal.  Turn the key to the Heat position (that is between the On and Start positions).  You should see voltage register on the meter.

    If there is no voltage and you are sure that the meter connections are good, there is a problem between the wire at the glow plugs and the ignition switch.

     

    When you have done this, post the results and we can go from there.

    RonJ

    ronjin

  • #36535
    Tinbender
    Tinbender
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    Technically it is not an ignition switch but a start switch, since there is no ignition. But you are correct, since it would be impossible to leave the switch in the glow plug position, leaving it in the on position should do nothing more than drain the battery. And unless it somehow burned out the switch (unlikely) it would have nothing to do with the glow plugs.

  • #36536

    DavidPrivett
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    some switches turn to left from the off postion to heat just so you know this is possible with some tractors.can you come up with the engine name and model from the block tag so we can have more info. to further guess if your tractor even has glow plugs.

  • #36546

    rodwood
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    Thanks guys,

    I do have glow plugs and have been using them t o preheat and Start the 28/4 since 2004. I believe its a Y385 engine.

     I did have a little time today to get back to this, after removing the brass bar that connects the three glow plugs and giving it a good cleaning and reconnection, I am Getting good voltage 12.10 but still no draw on the amp meter,, if one plug goes bad will the other 2 work?  As I'm righting this I am wondering about the Amp meter itself,, not sure which is most probable to go bad at this point.

  • #36547
    ronjin
    ronjin
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    What does the amp meter show when you turn on the key, turn on headlights, turn key to start?  That should tell you whether the meter is dead.

    RonJ

    ronjin

  • #36550

    rodwood
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     I was hoping the Amp meter was defunct,, but it shows discharge on everything but the glow plugs,, even did a preheat for 20-30 seconds just for kicks and it made no difference it still would not start easy,  seems unlikely all 3 would go bad at once for no known reason?? Guess I'm going to have to pull each one and verify they will heat with direct current??

  • #36551
    Tinbender
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    It is possible you were starting on one good plug, that the other two had gone bad over time. Now there's nothing to get the engine spinning.hmmm

  • #36552
    ronjin
    ronjin
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    I want to be sure that I understand.

    You hooked up a meter for measuring Voltage between the wire that connects to the glow plug copper bar and a tractor ground as I described in a previous note.  The reading on the meter was slightly over 12 Volts.  Correct?

     

    Curiosity – Is the wire that connects to the copper bar a green wire labelled 39?

    RonJ

    ronjin

  • #36553

    Affordable
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    It is a green wire not sure if the number ?,I would say it's either a bad key switch or 3- bad glow plugs, yes the glow plugs will work separately .Take a Hot wire from the battery and put it on where the green wire attachs to the buse bar, with the key on you should see a amp draw if the glow plugs are working.If that works its a bad key switch, if not its bad glow plugs

     

    Tommy

    Affordable Tractor Sales

    “Your Jinma Parts Superstore”

    http://www.affordabletractorsalesco.com

  • #36554

    rodwood
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    Yes I unthreaded the round nut that secures the copper bar to the glow plug at the green wire connector, slid the meter probe just under the green wire connector and above the copper bus bar, then tightened the round nut compressing the probe between the bus bar and the green wire connector, I do think it was #39,  turned the key to heat position and got 12.10 volts at the glow plug/ bus bar  then turned key to off and got no volts then again 12.10 volts, same with a test light hit the heat and light lights up.

  • #36555

    rodwood
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    I pulled each one out clamped each to ground and gave it direct 12Volt to the tip of each one checked for voltage,, they did not heat. I have ordered the new glow plugs.

  • #36556

    RichWaugh
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    One thing you haven't accomplished with that is determining if that circuit will actually handle the load of the glow plugs.  It is entirely possible to have 12 volts reading on you multimeter and have it drop to near zero when a real load is applied.  The mulitmeter only draws five milliamps or so; nothing compared to what the glow plugs draw.  You might try removing that wire from th ebus bar and hooking it to a spare headlight or some other high draw item and then hook the other side to ground.  If the headlight lights brightly when you turn the key to heat position than the circuit is fine and the problem lies in either the connections from the buss bas to the glow plugs or the glow plugs are all shot.

  • #36559

    rodwood
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    Good Point Rich,

     I have received the new glow plugs and like always there is something I don't know,, the new glow plugs come with a copper washer that slides up and down the heating element  this washer Possibly could slide off and into the glow plug receiving hole in the block as I am installing, is this copper washer for sealing purposes and meant to stay in place during the install with grease?? Or should it be removed?? I defiantly don't want to loose it inside the engine>

  • #36560

    RichWaugh
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    That's a soft copper sealing washer and needs to be there.  You can stick it place with a little dab of grease, but it can't fall through the injection hole into the combustion chamber in any event.  The old ones should come out withe old injectors but if they don't you'll need a little hook probe to snatch them out of the holes.

  • #36561

    DavidPrivett
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    I know they are new but it might be a good idea to test them first before installation.I remember reading a while back that people have had several bad ones out of the box.

  • #36562

    rodwood
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    Your rite new doesn't mean they will work,, not that I have tested them just yet but it is becoming increasing clear that there have been a couple designs. The pic I posted earlier shows the brass or copper washer compressing against flat landings between the head is the new plug, after a careful look the existing plugs have a rounded bottom to them where the copper washer compresses against the head and plug. I hope I can still find the rite ones.  I know how things change??  Also the copper washer on one was left behind and did not come out with the plug, like rich was talking about,  It is still stuck and I am having a time breaking it free so I can remove it. I don't want to damage the seat.

  • #36563

    RichWaugh
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    While you're doing this project, you might want to consider adding a relay to the GP circuit to take the load off the key switch.  The Chinese key switches are somewhat notorious for crapping out easily, due at least in part to carrying too much load through the contacts.  Adding a cheap 12v relay in the circuit and a 1`0 gauge wire from the relay to GPs will both give hotter GPs and cut the load on the key switch contacts to only about one amp instead of 30 or more.

    The same concept applies on the wiring for the starter solenoid.  I added one to my starter solenoid due to having continual problems with low cranking juice and it completely solved the problem and the thing starts every time now.  I didn't bother with the GPs on mine since I have no need of them in the tropics.

  • #36564
    Tinbender
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    Rich says:”I didn't bother with the GPs on mine since I have no need of them in the tropics.” Show off! It was 0 here the other morningroflmao

  • #36565

    RichWaugh
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    It got chilly here just the other day – went down to almost 70°.  I put on a shirt and long pants, even. neener 

     

    At 0° I seize up and have to be resuscitated with fire and whiskey. embarassed

  • #36566
    Bob Rooks
    Bob Rooks
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    roflmao Bwahahahaaha!! roflmao

    Yuchai dozer, Mustang skid steer, Mitsubishi mini-ex, Dual Dozer w/twin laser receivers, '50 Ford COE transit mixer.

  • #36568

    DavidPrivett
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    I sense a bit of temperal jealousy.but may be you should not worrying about getting that copper washer out.the ones that came out make sure that they fit correctly on the new glow plugs,yes it would be best to put in new ones,but if you torque it properly you should be able to reuse the one vs. tearing who know what  trying to get it out. remember never sieze

  • #36569
    Tinbender
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    Fire and Whiskey? Hey Rich, if you want to get s#!tfaced it's supposed to stay around 0 every night through next weekend!roflmao

  • #36571
    Bob Rooks
    Bob Rooks
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    Where is the “Like” button? roflmao

    Yuchai dozer, Mustang skid steer, Mitsubishi mini-ex, Dual Dozer w/twin laser receivers, '50 Ford COE transit mixer.

  • #47234

    Bennie
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    I have a ts254c and i have not wire going to my glow plugs. Can someone tell me where that wire comes from to go to the plugs. I think it has to go thru the switch, but where does it come from to get to the switch. I know this was an old posting but may be someone will see it.

    Bennie

  • #47235

    DavidPrivett
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    it  uses a common hot, all power from the switch comes from one source and switched out to what gets energy. You need to determine how the switch works as since there is no wire to the glow plug bar, did it come from the factory like that then the switch might not have a heat position. If the switch is marked on the dash that might be a good indicator as how it works . My tractor the switch turns to the left to heat. Try applying 12 volts to the glow plug bar to see if there is a current draw or a meter to ohms one side to the bar the other  to ground it should read about zero ohms if one of the is working.  Like in the earlier post a relay will make it heat better.

  • #47236

    Bennie
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    The tractor is used. The glow bar has a tv cheater cord screwed to it with a terminal on the other end just hanging. He told me i think to put that on the wire on the solonoid i think. if i wanted to use glow plugs. But i have no wire left on the switch. I have a blue, red, yellow, and a big black in the middle. The blue wire comes from the solonoid, i think it is hot. The red goes to fuse then goes to the amp meter.  The black wire and the yellow wire was hanging down under tractor not hooked to anything. I might have found that these wire may go to the clucth safety switch. Do you know anywhere i could get a diagram for the kama ts254c. On my switch i do have to turn key to left to turn on the glow plugs, so it looks like to me a wire has to go from there to something else then go to the plugs.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Bennie

    Bennie

  • #47237

    DavidPrivett
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    what I would do is use a test light or meter, ground one side of what ever you use, put the switch in the heat position and look for what terminal gets power in the heater position . Get a wire on that terminal carry it to a relay( I used a start relay off a riding lawnmower but they need a ground wire they are not self grounded thru the base) make that your power to activate the relay. Run a wire from the battery or starter and fuse or  breaker  it 30 amps should do it to one of the larger posts on the relay. Then take a wire form the other large post to the heater strip and you should be good to go. I would use 10 ga. wire for the large posts and I would think nothing smaller than 16 ga. for the smaller lug from the switch. You will not see a big discharge on the amp meter when heating wired like this just FYI.

  • #47238

    Bennie
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    That sounds like a good idea, I will try that tonight when I get off work. this is a picture of switch. Just thought that may help.

    Thanks again for information

    Bennie

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    Bennie

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