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Hi folks, my jinma dozer stopped moving the last time I used it. I was just using a York rake to grade a trench and was running it for less than an hour. As I used it, it starting slipping or not engaging forward or reverse very well. I let it cool down then went to put back on trailer. as I shifted from reverse to forward I heard a loud ping noise like a sheer pin breaking or something like that and then nothing. I could hear the hydraulic pump loading slightly when shifting from forward to reverse but no movement at all. Now if you shift it in forward or reverse it will load and almost stall the engine. I took the cover off of the shuttle clutch and there is a lot of chipping and obvious metal damage. Cant find any broken pieces and nothing in the drain pan when I drained it, but the clutch doesn’t seem to move in either direction.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Dan
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There is a suction screen behind a three bolt flange at the base of the shuttle clutch housing, did you remove and inspect it? What kind of oil have you been using in the shuttle clutch? PS: Your dozer is a Yuchai. Jinma doesn’t market bulldozers.
It appears that there was ATF fluid in this unit. This is how it was when I got the unit. I did not know there was a screen there. I will check it today. Do you know the easiest way to remove shuttle clutch? It seems that would be less work to pull engine than remove entire rear of machine.
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I will post a picture of the damage to shuttle clutch later today when I remove the cover. It appears that you are a legend Bob!! After contacting the third dealer for the part with no success, they directly referred my to you!!
Do you still have the pdf on the parts manual? You sent it to me years ago and 3 computers later it did not survive!! lol
Once again thanks for your help Bob!!
Dan
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Wow! That’s some compliment. Thanks. :yahoo:
Ok, ATF is the wrong oil for that application. Don’t know where that idea came from. These are geared friction drives, and should be using an AGMA rated oil. I recommend a minimum ISO AW 100 Machine Oil and Caterpillar TO-2 SAE 30 Torque Fluid,
but you can substitute ISO AW 46 or 68 hydraulic oil. Anyway, the damage has been done. My sympathies.
Personally, I have never pulled one of these clutch assemblies, but it does seem appropriate to remove the blade and wishbone and go in from the front.
If you will PM me your email addy I will send you what I have on the shuttle clutch.
Hint: I keep all my files backed up on a remote hard drive – just in case.Account deleted.
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I’m not completely convinced that the shuttle clutch is the problem, but it wont turn. Internally the engine shaft is spinning but assembly will not turn. It wiggles left and right a little and you can see the whole shaft wiggling all the way back to the pto box. What ever happened is in the area of the shuttle clutch. Cant see problem with my inspection camera. Any idea how assembly could be stuck. The engine shaft spins freely inside the assembly. before I took apart I ran engine and engaged the forward and reverse lever, the engine would bog and almost stall and smoke came out of shuttle clutch dip stick hole.
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Wow! That’s some compliment. Thanks.
Ok, ATF is the wrong oil for that application. Don’t know where that idea came from. These are geared friction drives, and should be using an AGMA rated oil. I recommend a minimum ISO AW 100 Machine Oil and Caterpillar TO-2 SAE 30 Torque Fluid, but you can substitute ISO AW 46 or 68 hydraulic oil. Anyway, the damage has been done. My sympathies. Personally, I have never pulled one of these clutch assemblies, but it does seem appropriate to remove the blade and wishbone and go in from the front. If you will PM me your email addy I will send you what I have on the shuttle clutch. Hint: I keep all my files backed up on a remote hard drive – just in case.<u><span style=”color: #000120; background-color: #bfe6ff;”>Thanks again Bob! :good: I cant figure out how to PM on this site but heres my email</span></u>LOL … I will take any images or instruction you have.Dan -
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I’m not completely convinced that the shuttle clutch is the problem, but it wont turn. Internally the engine shaft is spinning but assembly will not turn. It wiggles left and right a little and you can see the whole shaft wiggling all the way back to the pto box. What ever happened is in the area of the shuttle clutch. Cant see problem with my inspection camera. Any idea how assembly could be stuck. The engine shaft spins freely inside the assembly. before I took apart I ran engine and engaged the forward and reverse lever, the engine would bog and almost stall and smoke came out of shuttle clutch dip stick hole.
Not turning would be a steering clutch/brake issue, but that could be masked by a power input issue from the shuttle clutch. There have been instances in older machines where the splined input shaft to the shuttle clutch was not long enough for total engagement, and sheared the splines off. This could be the problem. I didn’t look specifically for that shaft, but it could be here:
https://www.circlegtractorparts.com/parts/?find=yuchai-bulldozer-all-yuchai-bulldozers-all-yuchai-bulldozers-6769
If not, perhaps Northern Tool.
Yeah, smoke is not good. This whole system will have to be flushed, and the directional control valve disassembled and cleaned. Hopefully the clutch packs haven’t been smoked.Account deleted.
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also, am I wasting my time? is this part available. I talked to Keno, affordable and one other that I cant remember and no gots…..
Don’t know what part you are referring to. No pic that I can see.
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also, am I wasting my time? is this part available. I talked to Keno, affordable and one other that I cant remember and no gots…..
Don’t know what part you are referring to. No pic that I can see.
The shuttle clutch assembly…or is this rebuild able?
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The shuttle clutch assembly…or is this rebuild able?
I would presume either.
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if the transmission gear shifters are in neutral, shouldn’t the shuttle clutch spin free? This Is why im torn on where to look. I started working on pulling engine this afternoon. Can I see this input shaft under the shifter cover? I had it off but did not see anything obvious.
I believe it should, but if there are damaged clutch packs I doubt it would. It could be locked up in forward and reverse. It also requires about 30-60 psig from the forward hydraulic pump to operate. The input shaft will be present when you pull the engine. In the lower picture you can see the suction screen at the bottom of the case.
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Also Bob… there wasn’t a screen on the top of the shuttle clutch cover fill hose plate. Doesn’t look like it was ever there.
The screen is in the sump, right side bottom of housing.
The one manual seem very detailed about removal of the shuttle clutch, but the illustrations are missing that each step refers to. Is this how it shows for you?
As I originally stated, I have never been into one of these so I don’t have any personal knowledge of them, but according to the parts manual that does appear to be the “Forward” clutch pack, which has the #1 input shaft.
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Found the problem. Engines out found square nut stuck in the idler gear against side wall. Took pry bar and rolled it back to free it up. shuttle clutch is fine. nicked up from the nut floating around until if found its way home. Nut had to be purpose left in there. Absolutely no bolts or nuts in the entire assembly.
I will post pics later… cant make them small enough on my lap top.
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Found the problem. Engines out found square nut stuck in the idler gear against side wall. Took pry bar and rolled it back to free it up. shuttle clutch is fine. nicked up from the nut floating around until if found its way home. Nut had to be purpose left in there. Absolutely no bolts or nuts in the entire assembly. I will post pics later… cant make them small enough on my lap top.
Excellent! How do the input shaft splines look for full engagement?
Yeah, you got lucky. Some yokel has been in there before, you can tell by the lack of gaskets, the overabundant use of RTV, and the use of automatic transmission fluid (ATF).
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Found the problem. Engines out found square nut stuck in the idler gear against side wall. Took pry bar and rolled it back to free it up. shuttle clutch is fine. nicked up from the nut floating around until if found its way home. Nut had to be purpose left in there. Absolutely no bolts or nuts in the entire assembly. I will post pics later… cant make them small enough on my lap top.
Excellent! How do the input shaft splines look for full engagement? Yeah, you got lucky. Some yokel has been in there before, you can tell by the lack of gaskets, the overabundant use of RTV, and the use of automatic transmission fluid (ATF).
The input shaft looked fine. I agree…lol. I believe sabotage… There is a back story about this machine before he gave it to me. I guess he got in an argument with a mechanic that was supposed to fix. I got the machine in boxes and large pieces. I’m guessing he left a present for my neighbor…lol… Was a mess. I had to assemble it and run it to figure out why it stopped working for him. At the time, the steering and break clutches were out of adjustment and the pivot arms that actuated the steering clutches were seized open.. -
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Wow! I’m speechless……………
Lol… Take a look.
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I had to heat the nut with a torch then pry gear backwards to remove it. I pulled shuttle clutch out and rinsed it in my parts cleaner then again with break cleaner and a blow gun just incase there was any metal there. The screen you mentioned is not on the top plate and the suction hose on the bottom of the case is a single bolt through the center of the line to the case. Should there be a screen there some where?? All bearings roll smooth and I filed the rough edges of the gears due to the nut bouncing around in there. I think due to the large size of the nut, it only nicked up the outside of the shuttle clutch.
Is the hydraulic pump difficult to open and clean? Also, why isn’t there a cooler for the shuttle clutch. It gets pretty hot. Can I add one between the suction line and the pump somehow?
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more pics… was able to pull engine complete with radiator.. wasn’t horrible. I used my bobcat to pull engine that saved me from jacking up machine and possibly removing blade.
My only complaint… everything is nut and bolted.. Cant just run your impact and zip anything out without a wrench to back it…
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I had to heat the nut with a torch then pry gear backwards to remove it. I pulled shuttle clutch out and rinsed it in my parts cleaner then again with break cleaner and a blow gun just in case there was any metal there. The screen you mentioned is not on the top plate and the suction hose on the bottom of the case is a single bolt through the center of the line to the case. Should there be a screen there some where?? All bearings roll smooth and I filed the rough edges of the gears due to the nut bouncing around in there. I think due to the large size of the nut, it only nicked up the outside of the shuttle clutch. Is the hydraulic pump difficult to open and clean? Also, why isn’t there a cooler for the shuttle clutch. It gets pretty hot. Can I add one between the suction line and the pump somehow?
It’s good that nut didn’t find it’s way into the gear mesh. Geez! Good work.
Ok, about the suction screen; I didn’t find where I said it was in a top plate. I said a three bolt flange on the bottom right side of the shuttle clutch housing. Apparently yours is different. In the picture I posted you can clearly see the screen laying horizontally inside across the bottom. If you don’t have a suction screen or filter before the pump, I strongly suggest installing one.
Oil cooler; Does your shuttle clutch have a hydraulic accumulator in the left saddlebag, and does it utilize the left saddlebag reservoir? These would be found on most later models, 2004 and up. Also, using the correct oil will make a difference in the operating temperature.
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In hind site… I wish I videoed the tear down and re assembly to post on You Tube. There is just nothing out there for assistance. Might have been able to help someone else too.
I’m set up with a GoPro to produce a maintenance video soon.
Looking forward to your videos. You took some very good pics.
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I had to heat the nut with a torch then pry gear backwards to remove it. I pulled shuttle clutch out and rinsed it in my parts cleaner then again with break cleaner and a blow gun just in case there was any metal there. The screen you mentioned is not on the top plate and the suction hose on the bottom of the case is a single bolt through the center of the line to the case. Should there be a screen there some where?? All bearings roll smooth and I filed the rough edges of the gears due to the nut bouncing around in there. I think due to the large size of the nut, it only nicked up the outside of the shuttle clutch. Is the hydraulic pump difficult to open and clean? Also, why isn’t there a cooler for the shuttle clutch. It gets pretty hot. Can I add one between the suction line and the pump somehow?
It’s good that nut didn’t find it’s way into the gear mesh. Geez! Good work. Ok, about the suction screen; I didn’t find where I said it was in a top plate. I said a three bolt flange on the bottom right side of the shuttle clutch housing. Apparently yours is different. In the picture I posted you can clearly see the screen laying horizontally inside across the bottom. If you don’t have a suction screen or filter before the pump, I strongly suggest installing one. Oil cooler; Does your shuttle clutch have a hydraulic accumulator in the left saddlebag, and does it utilize the left saddlebag reservoir? These would be found on most later models, 2004 and up. Also, using the correct oil will make a difference in the operating temperature.
Yes, I have an accumulator and left saddle bag reservoir. I don’t understand why there is no level indicator on this tank. There is a dipstick in the shuttle housing cover. it is hard to know how much to put in the tank.
I found Traveler brand tractor/hydraulic fluid. Is this the correct fluid? I also have ISO46 as well.
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I cannot find anywhere that Traveler UTF oil is rated by the American Gear Manufacturers Association (AGMA), however, ISO AW 46 and 68 hydraulic oil is. Another curiosity about the traveler oil is the Cat TO-2 rating – which one? For me there are too many unanswered questions and curiosities about the Traveler oil. Use at your own risk. I would use your ISO AW 46 hydraulic oil if you can’t find any ISO AW 150 or 220 Machine Oil.
There should be a sight glass in the left side reservoir, as well as a return filter.
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Also sorry I miss read the suction screen info. I do not see one on this unit. I haven’t removed the suction hose yet to see if I can come up with something for it. This machine is a 2002 found on the engine tag.
Several improvements have been made since your tractor was built, but I haven’t seen an oil cooler yet. I don’t think it would be too difficult to install an oil cooler and suction filter in between the radiator and front screen guard low down.
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I cannot find anywhere that Traveler UTF oil is rated by the American Gear Manufacturers Association (AGMA), however, ISO AW 46 and 68 hydraulic oil is. Another curiosity about the traveler oil is the Cat TO-2 rating – which one? For me there are too many unanswered questions and curiosities about the Traveler oil. Use at your own risk. I would use your ISO AW 46 hydraulic oil if you can’t find any ISO AW 150 or 220 Machine Oil. There should be a sight glass in the left side reservoir, as well as a return filter.
I have this exact set up…no sight glass though. Ok… It says it is sae 10w20 oil. I will use my ISO46. Got this oil from Tractor Supply.. Most of their stock doesn’t give much description of the oil.
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I cannot find anywhere that Traveler UTF oil is rated by the American Gear Manufacturers Association (AGMA), however, ISO AW 46 and 68 hydraulic oil is. Another curiosity about the traveler oil is the Cat TO-2 rating – which one? For me there are too many unanswered questions and curiosities about the Traveler oil. Use at your own risk. I would use your ISO AW 46 hydraulic oil if you can’t find any ISO AW 150 or 220 Machine Oil. There should be a sight glass in the left side reservoir, as well as a return filter.
I have this exact set up…no sight glass though. Ok… It says it is sae 10w20 oil. I will use my ISO46. Got this oil from Tractor Supply.. Most of their stock doesn’t give much description of the oil.
I seriously doubt many people at Tractor Supply have the knowledge of a lubrication engineer so I wouldn’t expect much credible information from them. I do happen to know a couple of lubrication engineers through work (one from Chevron, one from Exxon-Mobil), and I glean all I can from them. I’m also a Chief Engineer and Master Mechanic by trade so I need to have a working knowledge of lubricants beyond “Tom down the road said it’s fine”.
I already had the sight gauge fitting bosses in my left tank so I just ordered a new sight gauge from Keno. You can purchase sight gauges that install from one side, or you can make a very simple one by drilling two holes, one at top, one at bottom, in the reservoir for 1/8″ NPT fittings.
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I cannot find anywhere that Traveler UTF oil is rated by the American Gear Manufacturers Association (AGMA), however, ISO AW 46 and 68 hydraulic oil is. Another curiosity about the traveler oil is the Cat TO-2 rating – which one? For me there are too many unanswered questions and curiosities about the Traveler oil. Use at your own risk. I would use your ISO AW 46 hydraulic oil if you can’t find any ISO AW 150 or 220 Machine Oil. There should be a sight glass in the left side reservoir, as well as a return filter.
I have this exact set up…no sight glass though. Ok… It says it is sae 10w20 oil. I will use my ISO46. Got this oil from Tractor Supply.. Most of their stock doesn’t give much description of the oil.
I seriously doubt many people at Tractor Supply have the knowledge of a lubrication engineer so I wouldn’t expect much credible information from them. I do happen to know a couple of lubrication engineers through work (one from Chevron, one from Exxon-Mobil), and I glean all I can from them. I’m also a Chief Engineer and Master Mechanic by trade so I need to have a working knowledge of lubricants beyond “Tom down the road said it’s fine”. I already had the sight gauge fitting bosses in my left tank so I just ordered a new sight gauge from Keno. You can purchase sight gauges that install from one side, or you can make a very simple one by drilling two holes, one at top, one at bottom, in the reservoir for 1/8″ NPT fittings.
I will check for sight glass fittings, if none i will make my own. The owners manual says 30w or 40w oil. Not sure if that can be trusted.
Also, at what height should the oil level be. Should it be below the hose that goes to the top of the shuttle housing? Otherwise I believe it would over fill shuttle housing.
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I cannot find anywhere that Traveler UTF oil is rated by the American Gear Manufacturers Association (AGMA), however, ISO AW 46 and 68 hydraulic oil is. Another curiosity about the traveler oil is the Cat TO-2 rating – which one? For me there are too many unanswered questions and curiosities about the Traveler oil. Use at your own risk. I would use your ISO AW 46 hydraulic oil if you can’t find any ISO AW 150 or 220 Machine Oil. There should be a sight glass in the left side reservoir, as well as a return filter.
I have this exact set up…no sight glass though. Ok… It says it is sae 10w20 oil. I will use my ISO46. Got this oil from Tractor Supply.. Most of their stock doesn’t give much description of the oil.
I seriously doubt many people at Tractor Supply have the knowledge of a lubrication engineer so I wouldn’t expect much credible information from them. I do happen to know a couple of lubrication engineers through work (one from Chevron, one from Exxon-Mobil), and I glean all I can from them. I’m also a Chief Engineer and Master Mechanic by trade so I need to have a working knowledge of lubricants beyond “Tom down the road said it’s fine”. I already had the sight gauge fitting bosses in my left tank so I just ordered a new sight gauge from Keno. You can purchase sight gauges that install from one side, or you can make a very simple one by drilling two holes, one at top, one at bottom, in the reservoir for 1/8″ NPT fittings.
I will check for sight glass fittings, if none i will make my own. The owners manual says 30w or 40w oil. Not sure if that can be trusted.
Nope. I wouldn’t trust it. Not specific enough. And engine oil is formulated primarily for plain bearings (Crankshaft).
Also, at what height should the oil level be. Should it be below the hose that goes to the top of the shuttle housing? Otherwise I believe it would over fill shuttle housing.
This gets a little more sophisticated. The reservoir’s purpose is to allow the hydraulic oil enough time in residence to deaerate and cool, and allow for settling out of any particles (that’s why the “fill hose” is up from the bottom). The level of the reservoir should be maintained at the bottom of the “fill hose” level while the clutch dipstick reads at the full mark with the engine running at low idle. This is kind of like checking the automatic transmission in your car. There should also be a cleanout port on the reservoir too.
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Success!!! …..well for 20ft….Got it running….ran forward and reverse….sounded ok… then nothing….at all. I can see fluid moving through the shuttle clutch dipstick hole. There was a huge delay before engaging forward or reverse and now nothing??? pump is not loading engine at all. usually can hear it engaging.
Also does the pto only operate while in gear, or will it run with the engine???
Literally had to shove it back in shop with bobcat again…lol
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Success!!! …..well for 20ft….Got it running….ran forward and reverse….sounded ok… then nothing….at all. I can see fluid moving through the shuttle clutch dipstick hole. There was a huge delay before engaging forward or reverse and now nothing??? pump is not loading engine at all. usually can hear it engaging. Also does the pto only operate while in gear, or will it run with the engine??? Literally had to shove it back in shop with bobcat again…lol
Check the shuttle clutch pump relief valve, it may have debris in it. Check the pump tang drive, but if the tractor hydraulics are working this is probably ok. Is there enough oil? Chances are you probably rolled or broke an O-ring that supplies pressure to the servos when you put the top cover back on.
You have two PTO’s on the rear (maybe). The upper one is a tang drive, and is live – it operates with the engine. The lower one is a 1-3/8″ six spline shaft that may or may not have a two speed selector lever with the forward position being 720 r/m – neutral – rear position being 540 r/m (these speeds are attained when the engine is operating at about 1,850 r/m.
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before it broke the first time, there was a delay between forward and reverse… is this normal.
Yes. About 1-1/2 to 3 seconds with a cold machine. Any more than that and you could have a bad accumulator, or it lost it’s charge, or you have low pump pressure (maybe from a dirty relief valve?).
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MY pto says Hi and Lo but appears to only operate in low. With engine running in low it does not turn. So I assume that it operates while in gear? Is the relief valve on the pump its self? Yes the hydraulics for the blade work fine and there is proper fluid level in the shuttle clutch. We replaced the o-rings on the lines under the cover. We had to slip the fittings on first the set the cover over the top to assemble. I will check them anyway. How does the accumulator work exactly?
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You have two PTO”s. The upper one runs at engine speed, and is live. It’s behind a four bolt cover plate. The lower one is a splined shaft. The swing on the shift lever is quite wide, and should be: HIGH – NEUTRAL – LOW, with HIGH being all the way forward. If there is no detent or position for the high range then you don’t have it. On my tractor the splined PTO is dependent on the clutch. If the clutch is disengaged the PTO doesn’t turn, but it will turn if the transmission is in neutral.
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The accumulator stores hydraulic oil under pressure. Some are spring loaded and some will have a nitrogen gas charge. I don’t know which type you have, but in any case do not try to disassemble it. It’s purpose is to keep the direction control (rotate) valve pressurized. Some of the first models don’t have this.
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There is a relief valve attached to the direction control valve, and there may also be one at the pump. Be sure to count the turns when disassembling them. Probably a good idea to temporarily install a 0-200 psig pressure gauge on the pump discharge line to check the pump pressure, and fine tune the relief valve.
If your pump is like the one in the picture, the relief valve is directly underneath the banjo bolt.
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Disregard pictures. It’s not my day. Test port should be in banjo bolt.
I have this exact set up. But no banjo bolt. Don’t have anything to connect gauge to. The cap bolt on top of the T were the hydraulic hose from the pump to the control on left side is just the tiniest bit smaller than the gauge that I have. Standard 1/4 gauge threads. must be metric.
I removed the pump and cleaned everything out. Some metal fines but nothing major. The relief valve on the shuttle shifter was stuck open… cleared and reinstalled…
Still…no gots… :negative:
fluid comes out slowly from pump pressure line, but no clue whats happening without gauge.
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Lets try this…………
LOL…yes I did reinstall that gear… in fact I forgot to put the spring clip on it after I installed the front cover housing and had to remove it again. I am worried about that gear because the groove that the clip goes in wasn’t very deep. The suction hose appears to be clear but I will check it again. I am going to drill and tap the pressure hose bolt on the pump and install a gauge there temporarily so I can finally see what is happening.
I do find it comical that the hydraulic filter is last in line after fluid passes through all important parts. I am considering moving that to the suction line on the pump.
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Lets try this…………
QuoteI do find it comical that the hydraulic filter is last in line after fluid passes through all important parts. I am considering moving that to the suction line on the pump.Return line filters are very common. Their purpose is to keep the reservoir clean without sacrificing pump efficiency. There are also pressure side filters that are installed downstream of the pump to protect valves, servos, cylinders, etc. Suction side filters must be approximately twice the flow rate as return line filters so as not to promote cavitation and early pump failure.
Consider this unit if you are going for a suction side filter.
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Lets try this…………
QuoteI do find it comical that the hydraulic filter is last in line after fluid passes through all important parts. I am considering moving that to the suction line on the pump.Return line filters are very common. Their purpose is to keep the reservoir clean without sacrificing pump efficiency. There are also pressure side filters that are installed downstream of the pump to protect valves, servos, cylinders, etc. Suction side filters must be approximately twice the flow rate as return line filters so as not to promote cavitation and early pump failure.
Ok good to know. Filter stays where it is. How could I check to see if the accumulator is bad or defective? Also, I am going to pull the return hose off the filter and see how the flow is. Should the flow stop while in forward or reverse?
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Lets try this…………
QuoteI do find it comical that the hydraulic filter is last in line after fluid passes through all important parts. I am considering moving that to the suction line on the pump.Return line filters are very common. Their purpose is to keep the reservoir clean without sacrificing pump efficiency. There are also pressure side filters that are installed downstream of the pump to protect valves, servos, cylinders, etc. Suction side filters must be approximately twice the flow rate as return line filters so as not to promote cavitation and early pump failure.
Ok good to know. Filter stays where it is. How could I check to see if the accumulator is bad or defective? Also, I am going to pull the return hose off the filter and see how the flow is. Should the flow stop while in forward or reverse?
The flow should stop momentarily while the servos actuate and the accumulator charges, about one second if there isn’t any air in the system and everything is up to operating temperature, and then the system goes into bypass. I’m not exactly sure how your system is plumbed, but it may rely on accumulator pressure to keep the servos actuated, in which case if the accumulator was bad, or not charged correctly, the shuttle clutch would not stay engaged. Worst case scenario is blown servo O-rings and/or fried clutch discs.
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/2305/hydraulic-accumulators
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so we removed all the fluid from the clutch case and pulled the lower line on the case. There was many large chunks of silicone and metal clogging the holes in the bolt holding that line on the case. I was wondering if we can enlarge those holes in that bolt to insure that nothing clogs them or if there size is specific to the amount of flow to the pump. I believe even if we were to put a filter on these holes would still clog and stop the flow to the pump.
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so we removed all the fluid from the clutch case and pulled the lower line on the case. There was many large chunks of silicone and metal clogging the holes in the bolt holding that line on the case. I was wondering if we can enlarge those holes in that bolt to insure that nothing clogs them or if there size is specific to the amount of flow to the pump. I believe even if we were to put a filter on these holes would still clog and stop the flow to the pump.
The clogging of that line probably saved you from buying a new hydraulic pump. this is why there is a strainer on the later models. The previous ignorant mechanic that worked on it didn’t know how to use RTV, or how to make a gasket. I should have suggested when you had it all apart to rinse the case with diesel fuel and suck it out with an air vacuum. Show me a picture of that lower hose connection and I’ll make a recommendation.
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I will get pic the next time I drain it. Going to run is for a short time while I fix brake/steering clutch issue. At this point I am now trying to free up the steering clutch on the right side. Just broke the cast brake arm on that side. The brake band housing was half full of water due to no gasket on the cover… Don’t know if it leaked water into the clutch housing or not. Machine has been sitting for a while now…probably 2yrs. You mentioned Keno for parts… I will look them up. I need a starter, decompression cable and now that brake arm. LOL…brake arm looks like it was made from pot metal… So pourous looks like a sponge
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There are 1/2″ and 1/8″ NPT drain plugs on the bottom of the steering clutch housing, in case you haven’t discovered them already. These are to be inspected periodically and checked for oil from the final drives or transmission. There is also a large magnet behind a four bolt aluminum cover underneath the bevel gear case (They erroneously call it a final drive, which it isn’t).
Good sources for parts:
https://parts.kenotractors.com/yuchai-dozer-parts-c296.aspx
Also, if you have the TY series engine, parts are available from many Jinma wheeled tractor dealers.
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Thanks so much Bob!!! :yahoo:
Seems that Northern tool is the place. They have the other brake lever in stock but the correct one coming in April.
As far as the starter goes… is it supposed to be able to crank the engine with out using the decompressor? Mine will not. In fact, the engine stops dead when you release the decompressor. Got to get a runnin start then pop it to start…lol!! Is this normal? I plan on sending out the starter to my rebuilders anyhow.
Got the left track steering and brake working now. All good. Think I am going to get this broken arm welded for now until the new one arrives.
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Excellent! Good work.
You shouldn’t have to use the compression release at all except in extremely cold weather. My three cylinder TY-395E engine doesn’t even have a compression release and it fires right off after two or three revolutions regardless of the ambient temperature. Make sure that ALL battery cable connections, including the grounding points, are clean, tight, and free of paint and rust. The dozer wiring already has a relay (located behind instrument cluster) for the solenoid, but make sure those connections are clean and tight. The solenoid motor (slug) should be lubricated with graphite, not grease or WD-40 because they get thick when cold and runny when hot, and they are a dirt magnet.
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Ok…great! I did notice that the ground wire looked rusty. I will be working on the electrical next as the lights do not work…LOL~ Its going to stay in the shop for a bit until I get through all the little stuff. As I mentioned my neighbor gave this machine to me a few yrs. ago. I do a lot of stuff for them and he wanted me to have it in hope that it could help with my trench repairs. I haven’t been able to dedicate a lot of time on it. Business is slow this time of year and now I’m on a rampage to get this stuff done while I have time. The roll cage is buried in his barn upside down and barley visible with all the crap in there. He has since died about a year and a half ago and the kids haven’t done anything to improve the situation. So I feel like its time to make it happen now. :good:
Oh by the way…. the wonderful lady at Northern Tool also referred to you as a God!!! I said your name as a joke and she knew immediately who you were!!!
“We love Bob!!” Quote from her!!
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Hahahaha. “A God!” That’s funny.
So, the “roll cage” you referred to is properly called a Roll Over Protection Structure (ROPS) and is certified to support the weight of the machine from front to rear, rear to front or side to side roll over accidents. It’s also a handy place to mount a winch if you ever attach a crane to the three point hitch. Here’s a couple of videos of mine if you get bored.
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Hey Bob, So I want to change the engine oil today. Do you have across reference to the oil filter and is 15w40 synthetic blend oil ok for this unit? I use this on all my diesels. I cleaned the ground wire to the body and added another one as well. This greatly improved the starters performance but it is still too weak. My battery is still putting out 1000 cca. I will send it out for repair.
As for the brake lever, Keno…no gots…Circle G emailed China and they said don’t make anymore…And northern tool has the opposite side in stock and the other arriving in April. So I have the Left one on its way in the mean time. May be able to make it work in the mean time. My broken one cant be welded. The metal is so porous it looks like Swiss cheese.
Also, I assume that the ISO46 is ok for the blade hydraulics as well? I used Shell Hydraulic oil rated for wet clutches and gears 30w for the shuttle clutch. Seems fine, running quiet and strong. Obviously, its in the shop off the ground and not run enough to get hot yet. I cant do much until I get the brake lever and free up the RT side steering clutch.
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Hey on a side note, I have a Case CX50B midi excavator. Its an 07. I run ISO46 in this as well. I’ve had this unit for little over 2 yrs now and love it. I had a Kubota U45 (grey market machine) before that and it about killed me with problems. I didn’t know about grey market when I bought it. Any who… The Kubota digs twice as fast and definitely more power than this case. This case has never broken down. Not once. It is just so freakin slow I want to cry. I had it in the case dealer shop and they adjusted the pressures up to where their supposed to be (they were low), then said the cycle speed was fine. I was doing water service connections side by side with the gas company installing their services last yr and they had a CX35 that was literally kicking my ass. Granted they only dig 18″ and the machine was much newer, but the thing was like a little ninja! Sadly we are used to it now but it has nearly doubled my dig times. I wish I could trade it in, but not going to happen financially rite now. It would cost me way to much to get set up the way this is. I have 4 buckets, modified hydraulic thumb to fit in 12″ trench, and Hydraulic breaker. Also, I am terrified to get rid of it because it is so reliable. It doesn’t have a single leak, doesn’t burn a drop of oil and will start below zero with little effort.
Lol… long winded….sorry
Is there any thing I can do to increase cycle speed?
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Hey Bob, So I want to change the engine oil today. Do you have across reference to the oil filter and is 15w40 synthetic blend oil ok for this unit? I use this on all my diesels.
Yes, that’s the recommended oil, however synthetic oil isn’t necessary. You can greatly extend your oil and filter change intervals by using oil analysis. The oil filter is a little tricky until you know what you have because the Chinese filters will have the same part numbers for different filters, and the filter heads will have either metric or SAE threads. My engine uses a Baldwin B-2/NAPA 1515, but your engine may be different. Best to take it into an auto supply and match the seal diameter and the thread size. You can also call any of the tractor dealers for a Chinese brand filter.I cleaned the ground wire to the body and added another one as well. This greatly improved the starters performance but it is still too weak. My battery is still putting out 1000 cca. I will send it out for repair.
As for the brake lever, Keno…no gots…Circle G emailed China and they said don’t make anymore…And northern tool has the opposite side in stock and the other arriving in April. So I have the Left one on its way in the mean time. May be able to make it work in the mean time. My broken one cant be welded. The metal is so porous it looks like Swiss cheese.
You can easily fab your own if you have a key broach.Also, I assume that the ISO46 is ok for the blade hydraulics as well? I used Shell Hydraulic oil rated for wet clutches and gears 30w for the shuttle clutch. Seems fine, running quiet and strong. Obviously, its in the shop off the ground and not run enough to get hot yet. I cant do much until I get the brake lever and free up the RT side steering clutch.
Yes, the ISO AW 46 is good for the blade hydraulics. Maybe I forgot to mention that you can reduce your hydraulic oil inventory by using an ISO AW 32/46/68 multi-grade hydraulic oil. I use this in all my equipment which include hydrostatic drives.Account deleted.
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Can I assume you are changing the transmission and final drive oils?
Transmission uses about 3 gallons of 80w-90 GL-5 gear oil, and the final drives use about 3 quarts each side of 85w-140 or SAE 140 gear oil.
Considering the age of your machine, I would drop the final drive covers, clean and inspect for wear metals. The oil originally shipped with these machines was not quantifiable, and imo, led to early bearing and shaft failures.Account deleted.
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Hey on a side note, I have a Case CX50B midi excavator. Its an 07. I run ISO46 in this as well. I’ve had this unit for little over 2 yrs now and love it. I had a Kubota U45 (grey market machine) before that and it about killed me with problems. I didn’t know about grey market when I bought it. Any who… The Kubota digs twice as fast and definitely more power than this case. This case has never broken down. Not once. It is just so freakin slow I want to cry. I had it in the case dealer shop and they adjusted the pressures up to where their supposed to be (they were low), then said the cycle speed was fine. I was doing water service connections side by side with the gas company installing their services last yr and they had a CX35 that was literally kicking my ass. Granted they only dig 18″ and the machine was much newer, but the thing was like a little ninja! Sadly we are used to it now but it has nearly doubled my dig times. I wish I could trade it in, but not going to happen financially rite now. It would cost me way to much to get set up the way this is. I have 4 buckets, modified hydraulic thumb to fit in 12″ trench, and Hydraulic breaker. Also, I am terrified to get rid of it because it is so reliable. It doesn’t have a single leak, doesn’t burn a drop of oil and will start below zero with little effort.
Lol… long winded….sorry
Is there any thing I can do to increase cycle speed?
Depends on your pump gpm rating, your hose/line size, and your valves gpm rating. You also have to consider if your engine’s HP could handle any increase, and the increased demand on the pump coupling. But to answer your question, yes you can definitely increase your cycle time, but it will cost you.
Nice stable of attachments you have for it. I have a hydraulic thumb, a mechanical quick bucket attach system, four buckets and a rake for my “Mitzi”. It has the ISO control pattern instead of the SAE system – it took a little getting used to. :yahoo:Account deleted.
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Can I assume you are changing the transmission and final drive oils? Transmission uses about 3 gallons of 80w-90 GL-5 gear oil, and the final drives use about 3 quarts each side of 85w-140 or SAE 140 gear oil. Considering the age of your machine, I would drop the final drive covers, clean and inspect for wear metals. The oil originally shipped with these machines was not quantifiable, and imo, led to early bearing and shaft failures.
All the gear and final drives were empty when I got the machine. Part of my assembly task. So these fluids are fresh and correct. The machine only had 100 hrs on it when I got it. Now has 113hrs because I left the key on over night adding about 11hrs of no run time before I caught it….lol.
You did say I could use the iso46 for the shuttle clutch, but I felt I should go with something closer to the better recommendation you gave me.
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Hey Bob,
The throttle cable broke… I ordered another one. There doesn’t seem to be any linkage at the throttle lever to hold the cable in place. Is this correct? I received the other side brake arm and it will work fine until the correct one shows in April. Got the clutches both freed up and working well. Made into the driveway…50’…. then the throttle cable broke… lmfao. I want to believe I am at the end of the little crap now!
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The end of the #12 cable is rolled around #18 and is staked in place by #19. The outer jacket, I think, is held by #11 & #17. I haven’t been into mine, so I can’t say definitively. If you are referring to the engine end, there is a bracket bolted to the end of the governor that captures the jacket ends of the throttle and shut down Bowden cables.
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I don’t have the top part of this page in my download. Its the injection pump side that I am lacking info on. There doesn’t appear to be anything to hold the cable at all. Not even a return spring. Cant find any obvious location for missing brackets or spring location. Its not a big deal. I can make it work anyhow. I will snap a pic for you later. On the Circle G site, there is a parts section for this cable with a few brackets, but nothing looks obvious that I am missing.
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Disregard the dangling spring… used it temporarly to pull throttle back. So my throttle lever is closest to the fuel filter in the pic. minus the cable…lol (broken and removed)
The parts diagram doesn’t show the linkage at the injection pump. Shows the cable but no spring at the end like the stop cable. I feel the cable was installed backwards at some point. Don’t think my neighbor or his mechanic ever had to deal with it. The metal end of cable witch would commonly insert into a bracket was up against the throttle handle where as the sheathed end should have been there inside its retainer. So baffling to me that it functioned fine before now. Definitely did not remove any brackets from the engine to when we removed it. Still… something must be missing.
Again… not a big deal. I can fabricate something but just curious what should have been there.
:scratch:
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The throttle cable doesn’t use a return spring because you want it to stay where you set it. You tighten/loosen the friction plate at the handle assembly. And where did that fuel filter come from? That isn’t the original placement. It should be mounter on the left front of the engine and serve as the secondary fuel filter. There should be a sediment bowl with a shut off valve mounted there. I wouldn’t be surprised if your fuel filter had the same part number as the oil filter. Your injection pump and governor are a different brand that mine. Does your engine have a diamond on the left side with “JD” in it? That would be the Jiang Dong TY 395 engine.
I think the previous owner and his mechanic really had their way with this machine.
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<p style=”text-align: left;”>I got a whole box of parts with the machine whole bunch of seals and that filter was in there says fuel filter on it matched what I took off the settlement filter is just to the right just out of the picture at the base of the tank Dodge engine tag says Ty 395 I I will look for the Dimond tomorrow not sure if that’s on there or not</p>
LOL God only knows what this poor machines been through in the 100 hours on it -
So this is a JD engine. TY395LT. Pretty fantastic that if you wipe the engine tag with your finger, it completely removes all writing. I just went through the parts box and found sleeves of all different seals, a mixed bag of hydraulic fittings, (really odd ball stuff, all compression ends with male and female ends and a T with 2 compression ends and a double straight threaded end) All I assume are European thread. A assorted bag of engine parts ( a couple rings, 4 valves, a couple valve springs, a couple crank bearings, a head gasket and valve spring tool. This engine doesn’t appear to have ever been apart. I will ask the youngest boy, he will know if it was.
Ed was known to be a little over the top with things. He may have stock piled this stuff just incase. It appears to be every seal and o-rings that the machine needs X6.
Lol…let me know if you ever need anything!!!
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Sounds like you are missing a few things. 😉 These are shipped from the factory with a spare set of hoses, enough miscellaneous parts to do an engine overhaul (including spare filters), and a complete set of metric wrenches and sockets (no ratchet tho), hammer, pliers, and screwdrivers. All of the hose connections are metric 14 and 17 mm ORFS. ORFS fittings are becoming more commonplace in the construction machinery industry all the time, and slowly replacing the JIC and SAE fittings in some applications. It’s best to keep a few 6 mm and 8mm O-rings on hand for the ORFS fittings.
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Also this cable was completely different than the one i removed. For the better though. Fits perfectly and the threaded end made it way easier to make a quick bracket to hold it in place. Now i can see there is no need for the spring. The injection pump pulls back when engine is running. :good:
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Wow.. that pic is horribly misleading. The hard plumbed line in front is the oil pressure gauge to the fitting on the block at bottom of pic. The fuel bowl runs in copper down under the oil pressure fitting on the block back up to the hand prime pump, out through the filter and back to inj. pump. There is also a copper line from just in front of the injection lines to the hand pump as well. Bypass/return I assume.
There is a return line from the injectors to the top of the tank. Braided hose to copper line to top of tank.
So the tank has only one outlet at the fuel bowl and one inlet on top for the return line.
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Hey Bob,
Its been a while but I am back at the dozer again. Heres where I am at currently today. The dozer runs fantastic and can be used for about 30min before it stops moving. Seems like when its warm it will not go into forward or reverse. Reverse lasts longer but eventually it stops completely as well. Let it cool down and back to work again. Understand its not overheating, you can put your hand on the return tank and it is merely warm. I am not really sure where to start with this issue. I am running Iso46 for the shuttle clutch. When its cool and just start using the machine its perfect. no slipping excellent power will spin the tracks with heavy load in front.
Any ideas?
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It sounds to me like you’re losing hydraulic pressure that compresses the servos, and somehow related to time and/or localized heat. Have you checked/cleaned the pump suction screen in the bottom of the housing? Also possible that the clutch pump bypass/relief is sticking open – may be that the spring is weak or broken. If the pump doesn’t have a relief valve there is one in the shift selector valve. The selector valve also has O-rings that could be bypassing and just dumping oil back into the reservoir.
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It sounds to me like you’re losing hydraulic pressure that compresses the servos, and somehow related to time and/or localized heat. Have you checked/cleaned the pump suction screen in the bottom of the housing? Also possible that the clutch pump bypass/relief is sticking open – may be that the spring is weak or broken. If the pump doesn’t have a relief valve there is one in the shift selector valve. The selector valve also has O-rings that could be bypassing and just dumping oil back into the reservoir.
This unit did not have the screen in the housing. I will check O-rings and the relief valve hopefully later today. I do remember having to blow out one of the lines going to the pump as it had a small orifice and was partially plugged. I believe it was at or near the base of the shuttle clutch housing. Is this where the screen should be located? I am not sure how i could install one there as of yet.
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Today I got to spend a little time I cleaned the relief valve, which is located on my shifter, not one on the pump. On this model, it was scored up a bit and I cleaned it with some fine Emery paper. Ran it for a little while same thing happened, I lose forward first and then eventually reverse, brought it back in the shop, pull the relief valve BAC out and found a piece of rubber stuck in it, cleared it, tried to run it again, still won’t move because it’s warm. Maybe tomorrow, I’ll have time to pull that 3 bolt flange off, and I will get a picture of the office or restriction that was in it, if that makes sense.
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That piece of rubber could be from a broken O-ring in your shifter valve, or worst case scenario from inside the shuttle clutch.
While ISO AW 46 hydraulic oil may get you by, it isn’t the oil I recommend for these shuttle clutches. The oils I recommend are ISO 46 EP100 hydraulic oil and ISO AW 100 machine oil (preferred). Both of those oils have an AGMA rating of 3 which is indicated for geared friction drives, and have a slightly higher viscosity. ISO AW 46 hydraulic oil only has an AGMA rating of 1.
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I will look into finding the right fluid in my area (near Rochester NY). I feel as the relief valve with all the scoring on it is a problem even if the the o rings in the shift lever are bad.. I am going to try and find the relief valve assembly and just replace it. i did not get a chance to wrench on it today as friend showed up and we worked his car then drank beer…the end….lol. I thought about the shift lever next because i have not had it apart. I don’t think its from the shuttle clutch because i put all new in, but anything is possible. I will do the shift lever next, but i want to get you a pic of the 3 bolt flange on shuttle clutch return with restriction in it. Its been almost a yr since i last had it off, but I remember it being restricted.
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I got to play with the unit a little yesterday and installed a pressure gauge on the shift lever assembly. Cold pressure was 75 psi and i backed it down to 40 as the manual said. I let it run gears in neutral and shuttle in forward and after about 20 min the pressure dropped to about 30 psi with warm fluid. I adjusted back up to 40 and it was slowly failing in forward. Pressure seemed to maintain but i ran out of time to continue with trouble shooting. I did look at shuttle housing and it is a banjo bolt not 3 bolt flange. But i do remember no screen there. Do you have any images of this so i can reference when I do get it apart? I am trying to locate the relief valve at this point as well.
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